Author Topic: The state of the high end game.  (Read 21483 times)

Offline Grundge

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The state of the high end game.
« on: December 24, 2007, 10:22:22 PM »
Gameplay.
   What gameplay?  Run around and farm for armor on drops that are non-existant to ridiculously low.  The best drops are off Striders and there's a 1 in 100 chance that a purple will drop and when that happens its usually an RPG launcher which your class wouldnt need to begin with.   Since the 1.3 patch the loot table has changed on Howling Maw striders, it used to be a little better.  Even so, gearing yourself up with post patch armor with the right values is near non-existant.   Not to mention that they're usually stacked with stats and mods on it that you wouldnt want anyways and hope that someday you'll get one someday with what you want on it.   Ridiculous.

   Getting from level 44 to 50 is harsh.  With the lack of questing exp available between those levels you have to resort to grinding.  Grinding ALOT.   New zones for questing or quests should be made between Marshs and Cruciable, Cruciable and Thunderhead, Ashen Desert should have the mob level advanced to above what Thunderhead.   A new zone between Abyss and Descent, and a new one between Descent and Howling Maw.

   Quest items are inferiorating in the zones.  You should be getting 'new' items for your level when you get to the zones.  For example I going to Descent there's quest items relative to people who are in Cruciable at level 37-40, while in Descent your level 44+ and you want to get gear at that time for your level 44-48 character, you dont.    Its like that on every map.   In divide your usually there at level 15 but getting level 8-11 gear instead of getting more gear at your level your just getting disassembly fodder.

Crafting.
   Crafting or 'modding' is a joke.   When you finally get an item that you want and to mod up the chances of failure and even breakage are incredibly high even with 5/5 in every crafting skill.  Sure the first couple ones you put on it are 100% success but what bout the 3rd?   It drops drastically down to 54% chance and 15% chance of break or even worse down to 24% chance of success with 19% chance of break.  Its a pure gamble and it sucks.  I've lost too much good gear without the ability to gather more gear within a significant easier timeframe its just not worth it.  Most pre 1.3 patch items even with 3 stats on it cannot be upgraded to have a 4th. 

   There are so many good items to get from questing level 1 through 44 that crafting has pretty much become a joke to people at those levels, they're barely if ever done.

Suggestions for Crafting:
    1. Remove the break.  Completely.
    2. Mod Stripping.  Get some turpintine or whatever you want to call it and allow for certain mods to be stripped off of items.  So that good ones can be placed on them that the player wants.
    3. Allow greys to be turned into greens, greens into blue, blue into purple when reaching a particular level of mods on the item.  Have the crafting machine change the base attacks and armor appropriately when that occures.   This will give use to those green and blue items that are constantly being disassembled when having a purple makes all others obsolete.  (big myth in game that it already does this, however it doesnt.)

Powers.
   Noone should have an ipwn button.  Medics who can stun graviton armored people,  even those without they can reduce their opponents health down to less than 2k and than 1 shot them with a injector gun is way out of line.  Not to forget Spy's traitor ability followed by a netgun is 'just stand here and die."  Rushing blow is a good skill but should not be able to target mortars with.  You cant target floating cameras just make it so that rushing blow cant rushing blow mortars and turrets bane owned and you wont have guardians sneaking into the inside of some bane owned cp's.

   DoT attacks such as decay etc give res sickness after being killed by the dot itself in pvp.  Should be fixed, seen that alot in various games.

   Traitor should be more of a 'get me the hell out of here' power.   Should flag the person to be non-attackable as well as not being able to attack who has it on them. - In pvp.

   Medics AOE reduction stacking of HP's and stunning should be limited to a low duration timer of 3-5 seconds in pvp, and stunning graviton should be not allowed at all.

PvP.
   Group fighting PVP is fun, its good times.  Unless your on the offense and find yourself going to a place being ganked by an Engineer's turrets in 2 seconds flat. Not to mention being traitored or medic 1 shotted.   Dueling has come down to rock paper scissors with most classes.   Some people dont like spawn camping, although its not on my list of problems its there for some people.

To summarize. 
   The end game needs work.  Classes need balanced.  Crafting/modding sucks.  Quest items are 80% of the time useless because your farther along in levels than those items can be used for.  Getting to the end game is horrific.   When your there, there's nothing to do except clan war and currently with the rock paper scissors OP classes it gets old quick.

Feel free to reiterate or comment how this game is only less than 2 months old, its not about that.  Its about giving the game some extended life and keeping the players interest.   I probably missed some things so chime up if you have any other concerns.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2007, 11:14:45 PM by Grundge »

Offline Page

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Re: The state of the high end game.
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2007, 10:40:18 PM »
I agree with all your points except on PVP. Clearly, you have no spent enough time pvp'ing skilled players (on both sides of the table, heh) because you generalize the pvp as rocks/paper/scissors. WoW is r/p/s. This is very much so not.

No game is ever balanced around 1 on 1 pvp. No class ever will be, either. A traitoring spy is indeed nigh unkillable 1 on 1, but in a group situation with a healer or someone with enough firepower to deter the spy from the kill is enough to stop it. Not to mention level 50 graviton armor provides enough defense to survive the netgun, provide immunity to knockback, and therefore at least give you a chance of surviving traitor as a gren/guard.

Medics are not the real problem in pvp. They can be taken out with relative ease. Exo's are really powerful as well, but they are dealt with in the same manner.

If you're gonna whine about PVP, whine about engineers. The single most overpowered class in the game, their presence and turrets can take on multiple foes and swiftly deal with them before the most experienced of fighters even have a chance to react

Not to mention the broken PVP system, in which people leave their clan right before they die to avoid losing points. Entire clans of people are simply de-tagging once they gain a lead on the scoreboard to avoid having to fight for the remainder of the war.

I'd like them to fix the huge, GLARING exploits available to clans in pvp before they start to balance classes. PVP would be fun if people would actually fight.

BTW, if you are looking for the best pvp of your TR career, contact me on Pegasus server. We'll set something up.

Offline Grundge

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Re: The state of the high end game.
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2007, 10:57:55 PM »
Sorry, i'm in the Regulators, #1 pvp clan across all the servers.    I didnt ellaborate all about pvp because truth be told, squad and clan war fighting is pretty damn fun.  However 1v1 is a whole nother issue, which my points are generally about.  Anyways.   Your thinking clan/squad wars while I was emphasizing more 1v1 pvp. which alot of the times in clan wars it does come down to that.

Mind you that at high levels there's just one other level 50 clan to war with atm.    Without their zerg like numbers they wouldnt pose any threat whatsoever.  For several weeks after we all hit 50 the only ones in Howling Maw hanging around were all my own clan mates until little by little Imperial Fist started showing up.   We laid waste to them twice so far, the last one was 850ish to 250ish in score.   Their claim was we abused Regen Wave.  Which couldnt be true cause we only had 1 medic, which wasnt online the whole time. 

However, now that you bring it up.  It all does coincide.  Without something to keep players wanting to stay around waiting for the lower levels to level up to get into warring clans to fight against there's really nothing to do.   

- Grundge, level 50 Guardian since 5th day of release.  Not the first on Orion.
www.theregulators.org
« Last Edit: December 24, 2007, 11:07:38 PM by Grundge »

Offline moo2xmoo

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Re: The state of the high end game.
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2007, 11:37:08 PM »
Grinding:
Completely agree. To my horror, there are only like 6-7 non-instanced quests in Thunderhead (from top of my head), and they only give roughly 80k-100k worth of experience. At level 40-41 where you need almost 4m-5m experience, 80k-100k is nothing. You need around 20 or so quests + killing mobs (as part of the quest) to have a level up.

Since there is no more quest in normal map, I decided to go to Ashen Desert. Asher Desert is much better in term of number of quest. Thing is leveling is still very hard, I have almost completed all the quests (baring the instances) in Ashen Desert and I only received around 2-3m exp, which roughly 60% of 5m required.

I do not mind the 80k-100k exp for completing a quest as long as there are plenty of quest. Questing is fun for me, even if it is as stupid as kill 10 mobs or whatever, at least it still provides me with an objective, compare to grinding.

Crafting:
Yes, it is a joke. A complete failure, full stop. The introduction of Purple with 60% more damage, simply kill crafting. I have argued this over and over before. All part of the vicious RAGE NERF cycle.

Few possible solutions:
1. Bring the weapons back to where they are, i.e. Grey = Purple in term of damage, but more enhancements in purple. Thus allowing people to mod grey level item. Reduce the breakage level or remove it completely. Bring rage up back.
2. As Grundge said, allow the weapons to be upgraded from Grey to Purple. Just create another recipe and add new component, called it weapon enhancer etc. But the problem will be overpowered weapons. And it wont solve the non existence of crafting before 50.

My ultimate ingenious solution will require an overhaul on crafting:
1. Remove Crafting Skills for the skill tree, so it is no longer selectable.
2. You can only get Crafting Skill after you completed certain quest. I.E. Completing quest "Kill Thrax Boss" will allow you to select reward of Crafting Skill A through D. So let's say at level 50 you can get them all, or perhaps only half of them so you require 2 toons to get complete access. And this bonus is permanent, the clone will have the same skills.
3. Allow player to upgrade their weapon from LVL 5 weapon to LVL10 weapon, with all enhancements intact. They will of course need a recipe for this. Introduce a failure chance that will destroy the weapon. The more enhancement the more likelihood it will fail. It will encourage player to craft since their weapon can be upgraded and not obsolete. Of course to upgrade from LVL5 to LVL10, the crafter need to be at certain level, i.e. LVL10
4. Remove the high damage of purple weapon, make them the same as grey. Or allow grey weapon to be upgraded into purple.

Offline Bloodstar

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Re: The state of the high end game.
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2007, 12:56:31 AM »
I have to agree with the OP on one thing, Mod Stripping.
This is a GREAT idea and should be implemented.


As for the rest, pvp will always need balancing, but all that will change drastically with pvp zones, as that will change the dynamics of everything.

And yes the crafting needs some work, basically mods that are worth the item and break chance it would take to apply them.


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Offline Harlz

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Re: The state of the high end game.
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2007, 01:16:11 AM »

I think it's pretty clear to everyone they don't really have an end-game, just the last stages of a levelling curve. They now get to see if they can implement a meaningful end-game before they start bleeding the subscriptions they need to fund development.

For myself I've given up on waiting. When the game becomes tedious, or entirely PvP based, I'll find another world to explore. I can always come back, but I'm not paying a sub while I wait.

Offline Page

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Re: The state of the high end game.
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2007, 01:53:08 AM »
Sorry, i'm in the Regulators, #1 pvp clan across all the servers.    I didnt ellaborate all about pvp because truth be told, squad and clan war fighting is pretty damn fun.  However 1v1 is a whole nother issue, which my points are generally about.  Anyways.   Your thinking clan/squad wars while I was emphasizing more 1v1 pvp. which alot of the times in clan wars it does come down to that.

Mind you that at high levels there's just one other level 50 clan to war with atm.    Without their zerg like numbers they wouldnt pose any threat whatsoever.  For several weeks after we all hit 50 the only ones in Howling Maw hanging around were all my own clan mates until little by little Imperial Fist started showing up.   We laid waste to them twice so far, the last one was 850ish to 250ish in score.   Their claim was we abused Regen Wave.  Which couldnt be true cause we only had 1 medic, which wasnt online the whole time. 

However, now that you bring it up.  It all does coincide.  Without something to keep players wanting to stay around waiting for the lower levels to level up to get into warring clans to fight against there's really nothing to do.   

- Grundge, level 50 Guardian since 5th day of release.  Not the first on Orion.
www.theregulators.org

Actually, our clan beat regulators back in beta, but the number one pvp clan in TEH ENTIER WERLD is Allied Free Sentients on Pegasus server.... because they exploited their way to the top via trial account abusing, paying off players, and abuse of clan mechanics. Heh. Sad, isnt it?

We are the only lvl 50 clan on our server (once Umbra Tutela, now known as Defiance). Mayhaps when the PVP servers come about, we can roll on the same one for guaranteed fun.. :D

edit: the general consensus among 95% of lvl 50 players ive encountered is that if the february patch does not breathe a LOT of life back into the game, we're all gonna quit. wtfs the point of playing a game where nothing happens?

We're supposed to be saving the last of our race from aliens, not leveling alts to 30 out of sheer lack of things to do.

lols. If they really didnt anticipate people leveling to 50 so quickly, then they wouldve fixed retread and the abyss bots long ago. IMO, its sheer laziness that prevented them from adding endgame to retail release.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2007, 01:57:29 AM by Page »

Offline Rocky

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Re: The state of the high end game.
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2007, 02:36:37 AM »
Sorry, i'm in the Regulators, #1 pvp clan across all the servers.    I didnt ellaborate all about pvp because truth be told, squad and clan war fighting is pretty damn fun.  However 1v1 is a whole nother issue, which my points are generally about.  Anyways.   Your thinking clan/squad wars while I was emphasizing more 1v1 pvp. which alot of the times in clan wars it does come down to that.

Mind you that at high levels there's just one other level 50 clan to war with atm.    Without their zerg like numbers they wouldnt pose any threat whatsoever.  For several weeks after we all hit 50 the only ones in Howling Maw hanging around were all my own clan mates until little by little Imperial Fist started showing up.   We laid waste to them twice so far, the last one was 850ish to 250ish in score.   Their claim was we abused Regen Wave.  Which couldnt be true cause we only had 1 medic, which wasnt online the whole time. 

However, now that you bring it up.  It all does coincide.  Without something to keep players wanting to stay around waiting for the lower levels to level up to get into warring clans to fight against there's really nothing to do.   

- Grundge, level 50 Guardian since 5th day of release.  Not the first on Orion.
www.theregulators.org

LMAO I love the EGO these guys have by the way your tenth on the pvp list. And yes Im a legend in my own bed room as well. : )
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Offline Stormshadow

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Re: The state of the high end game.
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2007, 02:56:51 AM »
theres end game ?
Try to avoid questioning people's questions, especially leading to discussions

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Offline Coldkill

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Re: The state of the high end game.
« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2007, 03:18:55 AM »
Good ideas from all. Also, we all know who's the number one clan in TR :D

Offline Grundge

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Re: The state of the high end game.
« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2007, 04:04:11 AM »

LMAO I love the EGO these guys have by the way your tenth on the pvp list. And yes Im a legend in my own bed room as well. : )

The PVP list is broke and not reporting correctly.   

Offline Terradon

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Re: The state of the high end game.
« Reply #11 on: December 25, 2007, 07:14:41 AM »
I'm glad someone gets some satisfaction from this form of PvP. Back to the Topic, State of the Game, it's going downhill with each patch. Things that are working, get broke, then they just leave it. I'm referring to the Staff issue, then the Engineer deal. It's like, 'Oh yes, we know,it was an accident.' Yet they did not do a patch roll-back when they discovered the error. That really put me off. It's like once the game went live, the Original Game Concept got lost. Not even sure if the same Devs are even working on it. Would seem not, IMHO.

I'm willing to give it a little longer, because I talked several friends into getting the game. I'm starting to feel bad that I did now.

Offline PegasusMD

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Re: The state of the high end game.
« Reply #12 on: December 25, 2007, 05:22:25 PM »
roll back is not an easy thing to do. It also likely would require a character roll back cause of some of the changes. And if you remember the last roll back they did it caused problems where people were unable to enter zones because of map version errors.
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Offline Terradon

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Re: The state of the high end game.
« Reply #13 on: December 25, 2007, 05:28:30 PM »
roll back is not an easy thing to do. It also would require a character roll back. And if you remember the last roll back they did it caused problems where people were unable to enter zones because of map version errors.


I understand those implications. Here is my point. Server comes up. People see problem and report it. Devs go Uh oh. Message should have gone out servers were coming back down. Remove/Rollback to the State of the Game before the server went down. I know it can be done, been there in EVE, SWG and WOW when similar problems arose.

Then of late, they 'sneaked' the Engineer thing in without warning as well. Whether that was intentional or not, I do not know. That is why I'm a bit disconcerted.

Offline Grundge

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Re: The state of the high end game.
« Reply #14 on: December 25, 2007, 06:09:54 PM »
And the thread derailment starts..