Author Topic: Military Surplus 101 - Taking them for creds and the shirt off their backs.  (Read 12129 times)

Offline Delusion

  • Evul Genius™
  • Public Helper
  • Sergeant
  • ****
  • Posts: 223
  • Karma: 14
  • MEDIC!!!!
    • PirateSoup
Okies, MS to me is still Mystery Ship, a crazy action packed questing instance for Mir 3 players which as a GM i used to love watching players running through to their inevitable doom.
But here in TR, its the Military Surplus, and its an easy way to make a good chunk of change at the moment, while the game economy is still developing, if you're prepared to slow down a little and invest a little time (maybe a day) and some money (as little as 6cr if selling, 25cr if buying) and its a great time to get involved and help shape the economy.

So why am i writing a basic primer to the markets, you're probably asking.  Why would i want to cut down the amount of business i can do by showing people how easy it is?

Its simple, the MS is a place for Trade between players.  Its supply and demand, but at the moment there is almost no supply. I buy most of my materials and schematics from the same player and use them to craft items which i probably sell to the same players also.  They can only supply so many things i can actually make use of before ive cleared the market, and those of us who do trade are already getting used to waiting at the MS, idly refreshing the screen hoping for something else to go up for sale.  Hopefully with this primer, as well as helping more people make the most out of the MS, itll also help increase the availability of items in the MS for those of us who need them.

Im not going to discuss the mechanics of making a sale, or buying an item in MS. There are good guides available for that already, and i dont want to hit you with a wall of text with no info in it that you need.

So lets start where the serious cash is. 

Schematics

Firstly, just to clarify, I cant talk for the grenade and consumables markets, i don't use them. To all intents purposes, assume i mean mod schematics.

For most players a schematic is nothing more than a red, unusable item that slowly clogs your inventory till you need to make a routine trip to the shops to sell for a paltry 10 -> 25creds. 
For most players each sale is instant, cost free, and incidentally looses them around 2400 credits of potential income.

Thats right, even your lowly, just dropped out of a tree as you were walking past level 5 pistol upgrade schematic is worth money on the MS.
As a rule of thumb, armour upgrades are more popular than those associated with weapons, and an "all armour" or "any weapon" schematic is really really useful.  If you scan through the MS, you can quickly see what mods people need.  For armour, consistenly across the board Laser resist schematics sell as soon as they are put up for sale and for weapons, particularly shotguns, "Steal Armour" is the holy grail of mods.

As a rule of thumb a typical level 30-35 mod will sell for 2500credits.  A rare one, like a laser resist for armour can sell for a lot more. 

The key to remember when selling mods is to remember that the higher level the mod, the more useful it is.  A level 50 mod can be used on ANY item of the listed type, where as a level 5 mod is only ever going to be useful for a very limited range.  Similarly the speed of leveling means that low level mods (ie anything below level 20ish) isnt of much use as most people will outgrow the need for the mod in a couple of hours or a day or two and so most players dont seem to take an interest in modding till teir jump time at 30. 
Also remember the use of an "Any X" Mod schematic is a whole lot more useful than a "Netgun" schematic. 

Finally, try to take into account the "usefulness" of the mod when pricing.  Reduced threat mods are currently not very popular (god knows why, a good blade with [4] -80% reduced threat can be awesome) and so are harder to sell. Increased laser resist mods on the other hand, are really popular and pretty hard to come by, and sell as soon as they go up. 

A low level mod may not make much cash, for sure, but at the moment even a level 5 mod will make you 50-100 credits, and may take relisting a few times, but considering an npc may only give you 10 credits for it, it could be worth throwing it in there, especially if its a popular mod.
For a high level mod, the sky is the limit, im not going to impose my pricing strategies on you, but when desperation has called for a specific, hard to get high level mod, people are usually willing to pay a few k. 


Components


For every good mod comes a component.
At last count, there were around 45 different components needed for crafting overall, some a lot rarer than others, (see Unomats list below)
Unfortunately at the moment the market for components appears to only be covered by the same 3-4 players, who i would imagine spend far too long stood at a crafting station disassembling junk loot.

That green "vectronics pistol of patheticness" you just sold to the npc shop for 150 credits?
Well sorry to say that again, if youd spent 2 mins at a crafting station, the mod components were probably worth more than that each, and you could have extracted up to 4 of them.

Pricing on components is still really "up there" in the air at the moment.  A lot of players with no idea about the market are selling them on MS for base price (25cr) whilst others are coming up with more realistic prices.  For average availability components, players seem to have settled on charging between 500cr and 2k.  Rarer ones can fetch more than that as usual, and again im not going to suggest how far you try to push your prices to make a sale. 

I made some cash initially on the market by simply buying out all the stupidly priced ones of a certain type, like all the 25-95 credit kinetic buffer components, and then restocking them for a more realistic price, and i get the impression there are a number of other traders that do the same.

Before selling your latest coloured find, take a look at it.  Would the mods it lists be handy if they were on a more suitable weapon.  Sure "Debuff to laser resists" are useless on an electric injection gun, but there are a lot of laser weapons waiting for upgrades that it would be really handy on.  A stave with "Steal Armour" mods... not handy. A shotgun with "steal armour" is the gateway to uberness.
Consider what components are available on the market, check the prices.  Your weapon may break down into 1,2 or maybe even more components of equal or greater value than the original weapon and if players are putting the schematics on the market regularly enough to keep the crafters happy, the crafters will probably be happy bumping up their component collections with your parts too.


Items

At present players are overcharging on quest loot, and undercharging on drops.

If you do a search now for blades its pretty obvious what weapons you are going to get offered at lvl 36 for example, because youll probably end up presented with a wall of blue vectronics photonic blades.
The prices on them are stupid.  Its a free sword. Everyone gets one. Dont charge 35k for the stupid thing as that list is only ever going to get bigger.

Conversely actual real dropped weapons, rather than quest junk, when sold, is typically mammothly underpriced.  Yes, that pistol you've just stopped using is only worth 300cr to the npcs, but the reason you used it is because it is very good and another player is probably more than happy to pay 4 or 5 times the npc price if not more, price to demand, not just to make a few credits over npc prices.

Like components before them, i also make a good trade in weapons people think are junk.  I cant count the number of times ive picked up a cheap "junk" item for 25cr and have resold it for 2500cr pretty easily.


So anyhoos, thats it from me, and i apologise if this post has come out as more of a rant than a constructive guide to the basics of using our MS system.  The key to remember is that the economy on TR is still very new. Prices are changing all the time and the basic ideas ive listed here probably wont hold for long after i submit the post, once players realise there is money to be made and start really trying to work the market.

Dont get me wrong, i like logging in, making a few dozen trades and increasing my investments with relative ease, but to be perfectly honest, what i enjoy more is modding, and until players really get to grips with the markets and start using them, waiting for some of those mods to appear is at times painful.

Besides, ive saved the best money making tricks for meself obviously  :P .  The crafty amongst you will probably read between the lines here and quickly realise how i make the real money, and ive explained the process to a few :)  for the rest of you, if you take the time to slow down, stop emptying your bags at the nearest NPC youll find theres gold in them thar hills, and at the moment theres only a handfull of us reaping the benefits, you might want to grab a shovel and join us before things become too "stable" to make anything at it.. 

Anyhoos, hope it helps.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2008, 11:09:30 AM by Delusion »

www.piratesoup.net - Games, movies and randomness.

Offline Delusion

  • Evul Genius™
  • Public Helper
  • Sergeant
  • ****
  • Posts: 223
  • Karma: 14
  • MEDIC!!!!
    • PirateSoup
Complete list of mod materials, what mod they are a part of, what type of skill you need to use the mod recipe and what type of gear it applies to.

Note: Resist: <dmg type> and Regen (<derived ability score>) have a different material requirement depending on whether you apply it to a weapon or to armor! So if you want your Resists on armor (personally, I prefer that to weapon Resist ;D) it's useless to disassemble weapons with Resist buffs and you'd be better off using them as vendor trash tbh.

Note 2: I thought it more easy to track mods through the name they add to the gear instead of the recipe name. RR = Reduce Resist btw :D

Note 3: When in doubt on what skills are best in terms of crafting (you never know what will happen in the future in terms of Bind to DNA aso), the recipes map to skills in the following way:
  • Genetics: 13 ([Reduce] Resist: Virulent, Regen [Health], Steal Adrenaline/Health, Body/Mind/Spirit, Health)
  • Thermodynamics: 12 ([Reduce] Resist: Electric, Regen/Steal Armor/Power, Total Armor, Armor Piercing, Power)
  • Chemistry: 12 ([Reduce] Resist: Fire/Ice/Physical/Sonic)
  • Photonics: 8 ([Reduce] Resist: EMP/Laser, Crit Hit, Perceived Threat)

NameConstituent part ofSkill requiredType of Gear
Neuroprosthetic ExoskeletonBodyGeneticsArmor
Adaptive Cortical InterfaceMindGeneticsArmor
Aural FlexorSpiritGeneticsArmor
Endoskeletal SolidifierHealthGeneticsArmor
Phi RegulatorPowerThermodynamicsArmor
Biogenic Field GeneratorRegenGeneticsArmor
Shield RegeneratorRegen ArmorThermodynamicsArmor
Cellular Repair UnitRegen HealthGeneticsArmor
U-Field LinkRegen PowerThermodynamicsArmor
Shield CapacitorTotal ArmorThermodynamicsArmor
Capacitance ShieldingResist: ElectricThermodynamicsArmor
Faraday ShieldingResist: EMPPhotonicsArmor
Thermal InsulatorResist: FireChemistryArmor
Thermionic CompensatorResist: IceChemistryArmor
Photon DisperserResist: LaserPhotonicsArmor
Kinetic BufferResist: PhysicalChemistryArmor
Shock AttenuatorResist: SonicChemistryArmor
Shielded BiofilterResist: VirulentGeneticsArmor
Phase ShifterArmor PiercingThermodynamicsWeapon
Analytical Targeting ComputerCrit Hit ChancePhotonicsWeapon
Cloaking ModulePerceived ThreatPhotonicsWeapon
Peptide SynthesizerRegenGeneticsWeapon
Electron DistributorRegen ArmorThermodynamicsWeapon
Biogenic Field SourceRegen HealthGeneticsWeapon
Tau ConduitRegen PowerThermodynamicsWeapon
Electron Reflux GeneratorResist: ElectricThermodynamicsWeapon
Magnetic ShieldingResist: EMPPhotonicsWeapon
Thermionic ConvertorResist: FireChemistryWeapon
Convection DeviceResist: IceChemistryWeapon
Optic DeflectorResist: LaserPhotonicsWeapon
Kinetic SuppressorResist: PhysicalChemistryWeapon
Acoustic BaffleResist: SonicChemistryWeapon
Adaptive BiofilterResist: VirulentGeneticsWeapon
Electron Shield InverterRR: ElectricThermodynamicsWeapon
Pulse Shield InverterRR: EMPPhotonicsWeapon
Exothermic Shield InverterRR: FireChemistryWeapon
Endothermic Shield InverterRR: IceChemistryWeapon
Photonic Shield InverterRR: LaserPhotonicsWeapon
Kinetic Shield InverterRR: PhysicalChemistryWeapon
Kinetic Shield SuppresorRR: SonicChemistryWeapon
Microbiotic Shield DisruptorRR: VirulentGeneticsWeapon
Catecholamine SynthesizerSteal AdrenalineGeneticsWeapon
Recoil CapacitorSteal ArmorThermodynamicsWeapon
Vitality ConduitSteal HealthGeneticsWeapon
Tau ShuntSteal PowerThermodynamicsWeapon
« Last Edit: January 15, 2008, 11:05:22 AM by Delusion »

www.piratesoup.net - Games, movies and randomness.

Offline Unomat

  • Staff Sergeant
  • **
  • Posts: 532
  • Karma: 16
As far as I've been able to determine there are exactly 45 different Mod recipes and the same number of associated Mod recipe materials (feel free to use this table when determining whether a mat in MS is useful ;)).
If failure is not an option at any point along the way, it is in fact mandatory. - Engineering maxim
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. - Douglas Adams
Only two things are infinite -- the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not so sure about the Universe. - Albert Einstein
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire

Offline Delusion

  • Evul Genius™
  • Public Helper
  • Sergeant
  • ****
  • Posts: 223
  • Karma: 14
  • MEDIC!!!!
    • PirateSoup
As far as I've been able to determine there are exactly 45 different Mod recipes and the same number of associated Mod recipe materials (feel free to use this table when determining whether a mat in MS is useful ;)).

consider it yoinked :P 

Cheers matey :)
« Last Edit: January 15, 2008, 11:07:34 AM by Delusion »

www.piratesoup.net - Games, movies and randomness.

Offline Ronin

  • Corporal
  • **
  • Posts: 156
  • Karma: 9
  • Server: Centaurus (EU)
Thanks for sharing that info Del

I'm gonna try that. I'm not so good with reading between the lines but I guess I'll find out soon enough.

Offline teskon

  • Server Stealer
  • Second Lieutenant
  • ****
  • Posts: 2038
  • Karma: -551
  • demolitionist ! guardian ! grenadier !
don't tell them too much, i love it to buy packs of schematics for medical/weapongrade micromechs for 20 cr/piece =)
<•><•<>•><•>
the machine mother told us of the planet of your birth - we know how you have harmed this place, with your pollution, your violence, and your dischord - but when we arrive there, we will cleanse the surface of that place, and merge it, with the harmony of the many
<•><•<>•><•>

Offline Delusion

  • Evul Genius™
  • Public Helper
  • Sergeant
  • ****
  • Posts: 223
  • Karma: 14
  • MEDIC!!!!
    • PirateSoup
don't tell them too much, i love it to buy packs of schematics for medical/weapongrade micromechs for 20 cr/piece =)

Lol no worries, your secret was safe till you mentioned it :P

www.piratesoup.net - Games, movies and randomness.

Offline DeeSaster

  • Sergeant
  • **
  • Posts: 299
  • Karma: 7
  • `Cry More´ Centaurus [EU]
    • Cry More TR Clan
Ah bugger, so you guys are the ones I usually fight for the lowprice micromechs. Was so sweet back when MS was young. ;)
This **** isn't rocket surgery...

Offline Gangrel

  • Caffine Junkie
  • Administrator
  • Second Lieutenant
  • *****
  • Posts: 3325
  • Karma: 65535
  • Gangrel in game... any server
    • Blog: Semi-Random mutterings and musings
I dont touch the consumables... i am schematics man :D
1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) Never tell Gangrel to do anything... he will probably get it wrong
5) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.
6) BLOG ME!


Quote from: Lomez
WARNING! Swedish wall-of-text hits you for bork-bork-bork damage!

Offline teskon

  • Server Stealer
  • Second Lieutenant
  • ****
  • Posts: 2038
  • Karma: -551
  • demolitionist ! guardian ! grenadier !
currently i got 113 medical grade micromech schematics ... about 80 were bought in the ms for prices from 10 - 300 credits ;)
<•><•<>•><•>
the machine mother told us of the planet of your birth - we know how you have harmed this place, with your pollution, your violence, and your dischord - but when we arrive there, we will cleanse the surface of that place, and merge it, with the harmony of the many
<•><•<>•><•>

Offline DeeSaster

  • Sergeant
  • **
  • Posts: 299
  • Karma: 7
  • `Cry More´ Centaurus [EU]
    • Cry More TR Clan
Ah...the envy...><

But given the current state of TRs economy, I couldnt care less about dishing out extra cash...nevertheless it always gives me a warm fuzzy feeling inside when I save some cash. ^^
This **** isn't rocket surgery...

Offline teskon

  • Server Stealer
  • Second Lieutenant
  • ****
  • Posts: 2038
  • Karma: -551
  • demolitionist ! guardian ! grenadier !
tbh, i made about 3 million today (yesterday ...) ... 1,8 million came from a purple stealth armor vest ... seems like the next one will be put in for 2,4 million ôô, and i'm sure, someone will buy !
<•><•<>•><•>
the machine mother told us of the planet of your birth - we know how you have harmed this place, with your pollution, your violence, and your dischord - but when we arrive there, we will cleanse the surface of that place, and merge it, with the harmony of the many
<•><•<>•><•>

Offline Delusion

  • Evul Genius™
  • Public Helper
  • Sergeant
  • ****
  • Posts: 223
  • Karma: 14
  • MEDIC!!!!
    • PirateSoup
Ah bugger, so you guys are the ones I usually fight for the lowprice micromechs. Was so sweet back when MS was young. ;)

aye its growing up a little now and getting a crash course in economics to boot.

www.piratesoup.net - Games, movies and randomness.

Offline Gangrel

  • Caffine Junkie
  • Administrator
  • Second Lieutenant
  • *****
  • Posts: 3325
  • Karma: 65535
  • Gangrel in game... any server
    • Blog: Semi-Random mutterings and musings
Even Del is discovering that its hard to get a decent schematic that hasnt passed through my hands at least once on the MS ;)
1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) Never tell Gangrel to do anything... he will probably get it wrong
5) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.
6) BLOG ME!


Quote from: Lomez
WARNING! Swedish wall-of-text hits you for bork-bork-bork damage!

Offline Delusion

  • Evul Genius™
  • Public Helper
  • Sergeant
  • ****
  • Posts: 223
  • Karma: 14
  • MEDIC!!!!
    • PirateSoup
Even Del is discovering that its hard to get a decent schematic that hasnt passed through my hands at least once on the MS ;)

even stranger is how the ones i sell myself end up with a gangrel stamp too :P

Ahh well, its not like many people can use them without buying something from me :)

www.piratesoup.net - Games, movies and randomness.