Author Topic: Star Wars: The old Republic  (Read 13220 times)

Offline Gangrel

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Re: Star Wars: The old Republic
« Reply #90 on: February 27, 2012, 10:05:24 PM »
I know this sounds funny, but honestly... People were complaining about TR in the same fashion so soon after launch as well, and yet, you same people were still defending TR until the writing was on the wall that it was due to be closed down ;)

I am *not* saying that SWTOR is perfect, but in MY own opinion at least, i don't feel that it is as bad as you say it is...

Well, SW:ToR will go F2P in less than a year, that's for sure.

Personally, i don't feel that it will be... because otherwise they HAVE to be planning for it now, in terms of how to pull out the conversion, what to sell etc etc.

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They're so infested with cheaters, hackers and exploiters, doing nothing against them. So much 'bugs' not fixed, and if: at least 3 new are implemented.

Not seen it on my server (at least), so in my experience Lineage 2 and Aion are far far far worse in that situation.

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Don't they even plan a Mass Effect MMO? I hope they don't.

Not that I know of. *HOWEVER* Mass Effect 3 does have a multiplayer co-operative element to it...

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If you take a very close look at SW:ToR, especially the item/gear aspect and the stupid 'farming' involved, then you realize that they took all the WORST available on the market and put it together. Just to achieve this: having a simple WoW clone with guns and light sabers. I mean, where's the fun in doing the same instances again and again just to achieve 'gear' to do them again in a harder setting to get 'better gear' to be able to do the same! instances again on an even 'harder' setting? 'Hard' in meaning of: timed bosses that go 'enrage' after a certain time and mobs dealing a bit more damage.

Unfortunately, and this is more of a case for a "new" MMO launch in general, "Hard mode" for dungeons is a quick and cheap way to still have more "content" available. Granted, if you are there for storyline content, you do not need to do it more than once.

It is a common complaint that i have heard from various games about the "rerunning of content for shinies"... what ever the shiny is, *some* people want to be able to run the content once and get all related content out of it.

I do like the *idea* of "Hard mode" dungeons, I have ran the similar system from Rift, and the amount of co-ordination to complete them was quite impressive. It was also a good method of introducing *some* aspects of end game raiding, as well as helping the player to gear up for said raids.

*shrugs*

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Maybe I'm too old, but that's nothing that can keep me.

You are *not* the 1st person i have heard this from concerning how MMO's used to run.

I think that if you returned to your *old* MMO's and tried playing them NOW as were then, you might have come up with complaints as well (takes too long to hit the cap, constant grind for gear, not enough content etc etc)

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On the PvP side, well. EPIC FAIL fits perfectly. I mean, look at that open PvP zone called 'Ilum'. In the beginning, to finish that 'Weekly mission', you had to 'capture' certain points. Well, so far so good, now if you defend these points from being recaptured by your enemies, you're shooting yourself an arrow in the knee (sorry for using that 'figure'). So, you are better on to let them recap and then recap by yourself again, so long until everyone has 'finished' their 'missions'. If you PvP and kill the others, then you're acting more than stupid. Although that was changed in a recent patch (now you need to kill a few other players, but it's still, well, don't ask. Kill them (and maybe get killed) until everyone has the amount required and then redo the old game. But there's no other reason to be there. Yes, now even open PVP kills give 'valor' for the PVP rank, but, seems to be out of luck if it counts or not. Bugs are fine. At least they changed the way how to achieve PvP equipment. But why do you need PvP equipment at all? Isn't it 'easier' to make it all the same? An easy way to bring even PvE players into PvP without grinding up to at least PvP rank 60 currently to be even capable of participating without being slaughtered because of missing 'expertise' value? Well, not my decision, just more useless timesink without adding something real.

Not played on any of the PvP planets, so I cannot comment on the status of them. Have done some Huttball, and I had some enjoyment of that.

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But my personal dead point: they never planned to have a decent economy in the game. Crafting is and was ridiculous. A lot of fun stuff is 'bind on pickup', and most of the crafted stuff is useless anyways. To hell with the person that invented that 'bind' stuff anyways. The way to achieve 'better' items through re-engineering leads to a pointless spam of: schematic already known. Congrats, you made another 50 blue items to get a certain purple schematic, and for some reason the RNG gives you 3 or 4 times the same one you already know. Nice move, really nice move.

They are introducing *soon* (trying to find exact quote), craftable gear that will be on a par with "end game raid" stuff. This is with the 1.2 update

“We are adding endgame crafting for all professions. This includes augment crafting, the ability to crit-craft custom (orange) gear with augment slots, new endgame schematics, new color crystals, expanded and improved research and reverse engineering and much more,” they say.

TOR’s 1.2 update will contain four pages of patch notes devoted to crafting alone. When the patch lands we’ll be able to “extract base-mods from purple items,” letting players take top level base mods out of endgame gear and place them in any customisable set of orange armour. Essentially, if you don’t like the look of a piece of TOR endgame gear you can use crafting skills to rip out the stat-boosting mods and plug them into a more stylish suit. Set bonuses will carry over, too."

(thanks to PC Gamer: Linkage

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The fun part about all the time sinks in the game is: no matter how many more they add, the game is too short for an MMO. When I think about how long it took to get to lvl 50 in DAoC back in the time, how much longer it took to get halfways decent gear (well, was a lot easier with the Shrouded Isles add on). But it was FUN (not !FUN! as in Dwarf Fortress).

I think that this is a good sign that you are getting past it... (just kidding).

However, when you play something like City of Heroes *NOW* compared to how it was at launch (saying this as it was my 1st MMO). It took me over 700 hours to hit the level cap of 50, and i spent most of my time teamed up.... now granted at that time there was really nothing to do apart from re run the same missions for just financial gain (there was no market in the game at this point in time, nor crafting). Granted, i am a slow leveller, but it still took a *LOT* of time.

I believe that the average THEN was *around* 300 hours for someone teamed up. Granted, there are exceptions to the rule, but even with "Power levelling"... you were looking at around 150 hours.

NOW... if you spend more than 250 hours whilst playing SOLO, then you are going slow.

Unfortunately, this is due to the new generation of gamers who "Want it all, and want it NAO!"... if a game takes too long to complete, it will not hold their attention...

If World of Warcraft released today in the *state* that it was when it originally released... it wouldnt even last 1 year (remember that for most of the 1st few months, some servers in WoW were *DOWN* for more than they were *UP*)

We are just past the 2 month mark (well 2 months, 1 week) for SWTOR. I honestly think that there is still room to fix stuff in it.
1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) Never tell Gangrel to do anything... he will probably get it wrong
5) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.
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Offline Pvt. Grichmann

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Re: Star Wars: The old Republic
« Reply #91 on: February 27, 2012, 11:17:35 PM »
Of course, it's all subjective, and I'm not trying to pass TOR as worse than it actually is. It's good at what it does, but it doesn't really do anything I like. Basically, there are three qualities I look for in an MMOG: a "living" world that you can change, deep non-combat (Crafting and economy are the most obvious choices) gameplay, and roleplay potential. The first can be as simple as the control points in TR - just so long as the world doesn't feel like it's frozen in some kind of stasis. Let's keep the second off the thread until that patch's released - I'm really interested in how they're going to get the crafting off the ground.

As to the third thing, well... don't read it if you don't want to hear something that can easily be interpreted as whining. Probably is. I was kind of eluding stating it directly up till now, but here goes: I'm a roleplayer, and a hardcore one at that. So I'm looking for a game that would allow me to stay in-character pretty much all the time and keep the out-of-character stuff to a minimum, or at least separate. I hope I don't have to explain what any of that means. I'm part of a community that plays like that, so if the game looks promising, we give it a try and see how it plays, and to my experience, mission-driven games don't usually work too well - we're used to it, and we can usually squeeze out our share of enjoyment from the game once we establish some guidelines. With TOR, it was even rougher than usual. The way the missions are set up, we had to split into at least two separate groups that would do the storyline missions, and keep quiet about them when interacting with anyone outside their group; more or less the same with companions, with the extra bonus of having to coordinate which appearance kits we chose for ours. And then we had to just admit that it works in a non-linear timeline with some encounters happening before others, just to keep up with all those missions and instances. It kind of worked, but the amount of crutches we had to establish just to keep our team of maybe eight players from stumbling on their own feet really put me off from it all. And due to a bunch of real-life circumstances happening at the time, I couldn't properly keep up with everything that was happening at the time and had to take my leave from the game. It still hurts me to try and figure out how we'd integrate more characters as we met them.
And this is a dedicated RP community that's been doing this for years. And this game was touted as the next big thing to RP in. Yes, it is my disappointment speaking, but still.
We did admit that if you stuck to the same group of players or kept your RP limited to "now" and used as little character history as possible, it'd be great. For a group not as hardcore as we are, it's the normal way to play, so they must be happy with how it turned out.

So yes, I've had a serious case of overhype more than anything regarding TOR. It looked promising, but it just didn't work for me, personally.

Offline Gangrel

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Re: Star Wars: The old Republic
« Reply #92 on: February 28, 2012, 12:46:12 AM »
Of course, it's all subjective, and I'm not trying to pass TOR as worse than it actually is. It's good at what it does, but it doesn't really do anything I like. Basically, there are three qualities I look for in an MMOG: a "living" world that you can change, deep non-combat (Crafting and economy are the most obvious choices) gameplay, and roleplay potential. The first can be as simple as the control points in TR - just so long as the world doesn't feel like it's frozen in some kind of stasis. Let's keep the second off the thread until that patch's released - I'm really interested in how they're going to get the crafting off the ground.

Agreed.... :D

Fair points, and i do agree that there are some problems with how RP can work... although *depending on the game that you are coming from* there are some "unique" solutions.

I am not a huge RP'er in MMO's.

However, my GF *IS* a huge RP'er on the Union server of City of Heroes.

Their solution for how to cope with stuff is fairly interesting:

Alternate universe that sticks to cannon. Also they tend to RP more in game than on the forums; unlike the US players who tend to RP more on the forums than in game.

And this goes for pretty much ALL the RP groups there (The Militia, Last night in Pocket D (although this is general RP), Under Galaxy Girl Statue (very tight knit group, that has had to move locations due to the removal of the zone that they RP'd in), and the general "Union RP'ers". They all work in the "Unionverse", and when there is a clash, they tend to try to work around it... but they let each group work in their own "pocket".

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As to the third thing, well... don't read it if you don't want to hear something that can easily be interpreted as whining. Probably is. I was kind of eluding stating it directly up till now, but here goes: I'm a roleplayer, and a hardcore one at that. So I'm looking for a game that would allow me to stay in-character pretty much all the time and keep the out-of-character stuff to a minimum, or at least separate.

I hope I don't have to explain what any of that means. I'm part of a community that plays like that, so if the game looks promising, we give it a try and see how it plays, and to my experience, mission-driven games don't usually work too well - we're used to it, and we can usually squeeze out our share of enjoyment from the game once we establish some guidelines.

To be honest, it is always a problem in theme park games and "how deep" you immerse yourself storyline wise etc etc

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With TOR, it was even rougher than usual. The way the missions are set up, we had to split into at least two separate groups that would do the storyline missions, and keep quiet about them when interacting with anyone outside their group; more or less the same with companions, with the extra bonus of having to coordinate which appearance kits we chose for ours. And then we had to just admit that it works in a non-linear timeline with some encounters happening before others, just to keep up with all those missions and instances. It kind of worked, but the amount of crutches we had to establish just to keep our team of maybe eight players from stumbling on their own feet really put me off from it all.

City of Heroes has the same problem. In a game *especially at launch* where it is hard to skip content (ie the early levels), I have found that the CoX players tended to *ignore* it, and insert their own stuff... as long as it fitted with generally what *could* have happened (ie rename the person who stole your ship for the smuggler (note: just off the top of my head) it is still doable.

Companions, i would probably just "ignore" for most of the time in terms of RP scenery (or use sparingly), mainly because i feel that you are RPing 2 characters at the same time, which not everyone can do.

The roleplayers on the Union server have their own "Unionverse" in City of Heroes, where they work with cannon, whilst adding their own stuff to it.

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And due to a bunch of real-life circumstances happening at the time, I couldn't properly keep up with everything that was happening at the time and had to take my leave from the game. It still hurts me to try and figure out how we'd integrate more characters as we met them.

To be honest, it can be hard getting back into a system that you have spent some time away from. I am just about to return to a LRP system after 10 years (ish) away from it. So I am taking the easy option: Going in as a *new* player and forgetting everything that i knew before hand.

Adding in new players.. I *personally* cannot see any problem with it, just let them come in and have a ball.. whatever clash happens, try to resolve when it happens.. don't plan ahead for it.

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And this is a dedicated RP community that's been doing this for years. And this game was touted as the next big thing to RP in. Yes, it is my disappointment speaking, but still.

We did admit that if you stuck to the same group of players or kept your RP limited to "now" and used as little character history as possible, it'd be great. For a group not as hardcore as we are, it's the normal way to play, so they must be happy with how it turned out.

If you are going to stick to *purely what happens in game* as character development, then there will always be conflicts... with people meeting the same situations. However, looking back at some "In Character" missions runs that i have done in City of Heroes (as i said i am not a huge RP'er in that game, but my GF is), i found that it was easy enough to manage. Fling in some "oh this reminds me of the Corriban prison escape that I did 2 years ago, i wonder if they use the same security systems now? Oh you *have* to be kidding me, it still works!"... that way you can use *some* knowledge that your character knows (even for the same content) and still be able to RP.

I *honestly* think that part of the problem is that all the missions right now are compulsory to do, you cannot easily skip content and still advance. Once more content comes in, you can expand on it. The limited content means that *everyone* of a certain class will know the same stuff.

However, as i stated earlier, there is *nothing* wrong with rewriting what has happened, to personalize it more to your own character (add stuff/remove stuff, just dont contradict what the game says!).

For multiple runs of dungeons/missions, if i had to story tell it i would probably mix and match different events of each one.

Most of the stuff that you complain about in terms of "limitations" of RP.. in my *own* opinion it is a limitation of Themepark MMO's in general.

And each RP community has its own rules... the easiest thing to do (in my mind at least) is this:

When RP'ing with your group, go with what you already have.

When RP'ing with others *not in* your group, just go with the flow.

*additional*: Star Wars is also fairly unique in that it has several "levels" of canon that it works with.

  • G (George Lucas) canon is absolute canon. This category includes the final releases of the six films, the novelizations of the films, the radio dramas based on the films, the film scripts, and any material found in any other source (published or not) that comes directly from George Lucas himself. G canon outranks all other forms of canon.
  • T (Television) canon, which currently comprises Star Wars: The Clone Wars and the as yet unaired live action Star Wars TV series. This level of canon is considered to take precedence over C canon (see below), possibly due to the fact that George Lucas is directly involved with these shows as executive producer, and in the case of The Clone Wars is also on the writing team.
  • C (continuity) canon refers to the main body of EU work, and is the next most authoritative level of canon. All material published under the Star Wars label that doesn't fall into either G, T, S, or N canon is C canon and is considered authoritative as long as it isn't contradicted by G canon.
  • S (secondary) canon refers to older, less accurate, or less coherent EU works, which would not ordinarily fit in the main continuity of G and C canon. For example, this includes the popular online roleplaying game Star Wars Galaxies, and certain elements of a few N-canon stories
  • N continuity material is also known as "non-canon" or "non-continuity" material. What-if stories (such as those published under the Infinities label) and anything else that cannot at all fit into continuity is placed into this category. "N-continuity" is not considered canon.

Taken from Wikipedia

And yes, George Lucas has stolen some stuff from other authors and raised it up to "official last word" canon just by using it (Coruscant  as an example was created for the "Heir to the Empire" series of Star Wars novels).
« Last Edit: February 28, 2012, 12:59:52 AM by Gangrel »
1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) Never tell Gangrel to do anything... he will probably get it wrong
5) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.
6) BLOG ME!


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Offline Pvt. Grichmann

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Re: Star Wars: The old Republic
« Reply #93 on: February 28, 2012, 01:30:48 AM »
Yeah, ignoring a lot of the story the game forces on us is what we try to do, at least some of the time. Personally, I just decided that none of the individual storyline happened to my character - he was a smuggler (Of sorts), and fate did leave him stranded and shipless on Ord Mantell, but that's where it went its own way. I did play through the plot, of course, to see it and advance in the game, but kept it strictly out-of-character.
The problem with this approach is that there simply isn't a lot to do outside of the missions, leaving you with very few opportunities for "open" roleplay backed by game mechanics. Essentially you're left with playing out Jedi tea parties (Man, I like that phrase!) - it's still fun, but it doesn't really go anywhere, and I'd much rather play a table-top or an IRC game.
Of course, most, if not all, problems stem from different characters doing through the same story events at different pace, causing the non-linear timeline (timecurve?) I told about earlier. No matter how many missions there are, you are committing to some plot, and at least one other character is playing the exact same plot, but is at another point in it. Hilarity ensues when the two meet.
Same thing with new players: sure, they can join. And then they mention something your group has agreed didn't happen. Or just the opposite - something that has happened to your group. That means there's either a conflict almost as soon as you start interacting, or a lot of explaining what is okay and what isn't. Sure, a meta community, like the Unionverse you're describing, might appear to set up the ground rules, but there'll always be players who aren't aware of it yet, and catching up can be hard after the game has gone on for a while.

I do believe City of Heroes is much more inherently open-ended with its theme: villains trying the same scheme again, only against different heroes won't raise as many eyebrows as the same ship carrying one to four important characters coming under attack over and over, yet never being captured or destroyed. And with the way the missions are presented, it's fairly easy to just ignore the lore altogether and play them as foiling whatever evil plan you want. The mission construction set they released some time ago (I didn't get the chance to play with it, unfortunately) probably makes it even better in this regard.
Not forcing an origin story on the player also helps.

That said, TOR is much more approachable, roleplay-wise, and will bring a lot more newbies than probably any other MMOG to the hobby.

Offline Gangrel

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Re: Star Wars: The old Republic
« Reply #94 on: February 28, 2012, 03:59:24 AM »
Personally i would say that a meta-verse set up would be best for something like SWTOR, more due to how it *is* set up.

I will have to see if i can get hold of some of the Union Roleplayers who also play SWTOR and see how they are coping with it.

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Sure, a meta community, like the Unionverse you're describing, might appear to set up the ground rules, but there'll always be players who aren't aware of it yet, and catching up can be hard after the game has gone on for a while.

But yet somehow new characters are still able to come in and join in the *existing* setup on City of Heroes (note: there is also a global chat channel setup *purely* for Union server RPers in CoX, which we direct people to if they are new. Also the community there tends to help out with new RPers... and if their style doesnt mesh, they just ignore it (ERP'ers, God-Modders etc etc) )

One thing as well is that due to how RP is, you *have* to agree to partake in it. And if 2 groups decide on different things, that doesnt meant that they cannot interact full stop. It just shows that there is a *point* that shouldnt be discussed.

Annoying, but I have *yet* to see a single MMO have an RP system that *everyone* stuck to. There have always been variations, different groups on the same server all choosing their own rules.

And catching up for totally new players.... well, it eventually took the setting up of [http://virtueverse.net/wiki/Main_Page]Unionverse Wiki[/url] to make it easier for the new (and old) players to keep track of everything. It isnt perfect, but it *is* a great help.

This was set up so that *different* RP groups on a server had a common ground to run from.

Yes it takes a lot of work, there have been a *lot* of players helping out with it. But it is worthwhile. Even though players have characters suitable for different groups (one person i know plays in The Militia, Galaxy Girl, Pocket D roleplay scenes, but no character attends all 3, at most 2... with Pocket D being the general usage one).

Could something similar happen with SWTOR? I *honestly* believe it can, but it is also down to server culture as well, that is a huge influence.

Oh, and having a "running report" in a forum thread is a huge help, for keeping at least the *player* up to date with what has happened.
1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) Never tell Gangrel to do anything... he will probably get it wrong
5) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.
6) BLOG ME!


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WARNING! Swedish wall-of-text hits you for bork-bork-bork damage!

Offline teskon

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Re: Star Wars: The old Republic
« Reply #95 on: June 05, 2012, 06:41:53 PM »
I know this sounds funny, but honestly...

Well, SW:ToR will go F2P in less than a year, that's for sure.

Personally, i don't feel that it will be... because otherwise they HAVE to be planning for it now, in terms of how to pull out the conversion, what to sell etc etc.

Now, who was right?

http://www.joystiq.com/2012/06/04/star-wars-the-old-republic-getting-free-to-play-update/


Sorry. It's only a matter of time until they'll move it up to max level for f2p and then micro transactions will kick in. You simply get more out of it than with a monthly paying playerbase.
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Offline Gangrel

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Re: Star Wars: The old Republic
« Reply #96 on: June 05, 2012, 07:59:42 PM »
I know this sounds funny, but honestly...

Well, SW:ToR will go F2P in less than a year, that's for sure.

Personally, i don't feel that it will be... because otherwise they HAVE to be planning for it now, in terms of how to pull out the conversion, what to sell etc etc.

Now, who was right?

http://www.joystiq.com/2012/06/04/star-wars-the-old-republic-getting-free-to-play-update/


Sorry. It's only a matter of time until they'll move it up to max level for f2p and then micro transactions will kick in. You simply get more out of it than with a monthly paying playerbase.

If that is the case, then when will World of Warcraft or Rift become F2P, because *they* have already implemented this level limited trial for their games (where the limit was based on level and not 7 days/10 hours logged in (Guild Wars)/14 days). And they are (along with SWTOR) currently the big 3 of the Western developed subscription based MMO's (in terms of subscriber base).

Currently for SWTOR, there is only the "refer a friend" trial option (which is for 7 days only). Bioware have also done in the past "free weekend" trial (which has a level 15 level cap and lasted for 4 or 5 days). So for me... I don't view this as a bad thing.

If anything, I would say that something along these lines (ie the Level based limitation) will become a new "trial option" for those subscription based games. Hybrid model subscription games have their trial... it is called "the free part" of the game! Guild Wars is strange, as its trial is based on "amount of time spent logged into the game" and not "7 days from when you started".

Will SWTOR become F2P eventually? I believe that they will go for the Hybrid model, instead of full on Microtransaction as only source of income.

I still feel that my original statement still stands (because otherwise, Rift and WoW are very close to going F2P according to your statement, and Rift introduced theirs within a year... AND they had a non-refer a friend trial option available before they did the level limited trial option ;) )

Note: for me there are 4 payment models for online games.

1) Buy To Play: Guild Wars style here. Full game available once you *buy* the game. No subscription Option available. SOME optional extra's available for real world money (account services/extra storage).
2) Free 2 Play: NO Subscription available at all. Micro-transactions as only source of income for company.
3) Subscription: Subscription Fee as major source of income. All other money is for "account services" (character renames/remodels/server transfers)
4) Hybrid: Mixture of Free2Play and Subscription: Subscribers typically have no to minimal limitations on their account. Free2Play people have sever limitations on their account (which they can remove for a fee).

I feel that SWTOR will more than likely head to the Hybrid model *in the long run*.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2012, 11:17:41 PM by Gangrel »
1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) Never tell Gangrel to do anything... he will probably get it wrong
5) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.
6) BLOG ME!


Quote from: Lomez
WARNING! Swedish wall-of-text hits you for bork-bork-bork damage!

Offline teskon

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Re: Star Wars: The old Republic
« Reply #97 on: August 01, 2012, 11:50:00 PM »
http://www.swtor.com/support/helpcenter/6449  (overview)

OWNED! again ... :/



With the Free-to-Play option, no subscription will be required! You will be able to download and play Star Wars™: The Old Republic™ all the way up to level 50 for free, with gameplay restrictions that limit access to advanced features and group content. However, we will be offering the option to purchase services, items, and content to customize the gameplay experience. These purchases will be made available via the new Cartel Market and will allow you to choose the way that you want to enjoy the game.


*takes a look at gangrel and smirks*
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the machine mother told us of the planet of your birth - we know how you have harmed this place, with your pollution, your violence, and your dischord - but when we arrive there, we will cleanse the surface of that place, and merge it, with the harmony of the many
<•><•<>•><•>

Offline Gangrel

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Re: Star Wars: The old Republic
« Reply #98 on: August 02, 2012, 02:42:34 PM »
Hey, i am always willing to admit myself wrong.

Of course, I am inclined to say that The Secret World will go free to play inside a year as well!

Was i surprised that it went F2P so fast... yes, especially considering that from the reports that i was reading, it was still *above* the bare minimum number of subscriptions that they required to stay profitable. I would have thought that they would have held back till the year anniversary to announce this change. *shrugs* you cannot win them all.

However, I will state that this is a sign that if you release a game as "subscription only", then you had better have a "free to play/premium" plan in place *at launch* to kick into gear for later on. I believe that even Blizzard has stated that they have at least *rough plans* on how to transition World of Warcraft to a F2P model.

*shrugs* you cannot win them all.

Side note: I was reading comments on the official forums about players leaving the game because it was going F2P... (remember that they havent announced exactly what was going into the store yet), to move over to Guild Wars 2... (which is Buy to Play).

Ok, maybe they are feeling hard done buy in the switch from sub to "hybrid" mode.... but it is the same route as Turbine/Funcom/Paragon Studios/SOE have done with their titles (subscribers get all/nearly all content for free, but they also get a stipend of "points" to spend on what isnt included for free).

The hard part now is to get the currency pricing sorted out (please, don't make the EU subscription/points ratio ****ty, in comparison to how the US is *nicely* priced)[1]

If they  get the ratio's to match, it should go off without a problem. As long as there is no "pay to win" items (ie you can only get "the uber lightsaber of DOOM" from the market) then i think that it should transition across smoothly.

*shrugs* I am actually not against Free 2 Play in the slightest (what annoys me more is the "Pay to Win" or the "you must have X item to stand a chance of doing Y, and X item is only available on the market" stuff).

 Is this the end of "subscription MMO's"? At $15/£9/€13 a month, yes, i do think that this is a sign of the end of it. I am more inclined to believe that MMO's will be more heavily inclined to release as "Hybrid" format or "buy to play" (like Guild Wars) or to have a cheaper overall Sub fee (down from $15/£9/€13 per month). [2]
[1] This is going from the City of Heroes pricing structure:

US sub = $15
400 Paragon Points = $5

UK sub = £8.99
400 Paragon Points = £3.20

EU sub = €12.99
400 Paragon points = €4.80

[2] I actually had a talk with a developer friend of mine over in the US about this (Firelotus if you remember her!), and we came to the conclusion that sub fee's overall should drop to a lower rate if you were going to have microtransactions in the game as well as sub fee's and that Free2Play/Buy2PLay/Hybrid models were the way forward instead of "Subscription only".
« Last Edit: August 02, 2012, 02:44:58 PM by Gangrel »
1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) Never tell Gangrel to do anything... he will probably get it wrong
5) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.
6) BLOG ME!


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WARNING! Swedish wall-of-text hits you for bork-bork-bork damage!

Offline teskon

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Re: Star Wars: The old Republic
« Reply #99 on: August 03, 2012, 03:23:19 PM »
Was i surprised that it went F2P so fast... yes, especially considering that from the reports that i was reading, it was still *above* the bare minimum number of subscriptions that they required to stay profitable. I would have thought that they would have held back till the year anniversary to announce this change. *shrugs* you cannot win them all.

To be honest, I was a bit surprised that it was pay to play in the first place. Seems like EA didn't trust the numbers that were coming from the free to play market.

The generation for pay to play is gone, the world is moving even faster now. People play WHEN they got time and they're no longer willing to spend that little spare time with useless grinding. If they need to catch up with their friends they are willing to pay for. That's the way it will go for the next decade.

It's simply called evolution. It started slowly but showed the final proof: this way you can MAKE MUCH MORE MONEY!
<•><•<>•><•>
the machine mother told us of the planet of your birth - we know how you have harmed this place, with your pollution, your violence, and your dischord - but when we arrive there, we will cleanse the surface of that place, and merge it, with the harmony of the many
<•><•<>•><•>

Offline Ronnan

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Re: Star Wars: The old Republic
« Reply #100 on: August 10, 2012, 10:25:06 PM »
From what I understand of SWTOR's F2P model, it seems they've got things backwards. The good part, the class story missions, are supposedly going to be totally free, and the weak parts, the endgame stuff is what will be limited. so I'm not sure how this model will work exactly.

Offline Gangrel

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Re: Star Wars: The old Republic
« Reply #101 on: August 11, 2012, 03:46:37 PM »
From what I understand of SWTOR's F2P model, it seems they've got things backwards. The good part, the class story missions, are supposedly going to be totally free, and the weak parts, the endgame stuff is what will be limited. so I'm not sure how this model will work exactly.

Yes and no... *operations* (read raids) are not included. They are not the only MMO to do this though. City of Heroes has their "end game" (incarnates) locked behind subscriptions. But this doesnt seem to limit their playerbase all that much (note, incarnate stuff for CoX is abilities AND "trials" and if you unsub on an account, you *WILL* loose access to those abilities until you subscribe again).

Flashpoints (dungeons) is "limited" access for Free2Play people. And until more information on what the "limited" is (could well be x per day limit, or limited to normal mode).

They have also stated (in this weeks Q&A, so you might have missed it), is that a Free2Play player *Can* remove some of the restrictions via ingame/account purchases. Chances are that operations will still be locked behind a subscription (or you will need to pay X currency to unlock it for the month.

Honestly, without having *full* access to what the actual limitations are, it is  hard to say. They did say in the Q&A that if you have a character that is a restricted specis and you go F2P, you will still have access to that character. If you have a character in "end game gear" and go Free2Play, you will still have that armour available.

Basically, once you have earned something (either during subscription/purchasing somethign) you *will not* loose access to it. The only part that doesnt fit this model is the character slots limit. You *will* be limited (at least initially) to X character slots. You will have to pick and choose which ones you will have available *at the start*.

*shrugs* I can see why they have decided to limit the Operations behind a "pay wall" and not class stories... that is because class quests are the *defining* difference once you get to your capital planet, and beyond. Every single class of that faction has access to *all* the non class story lines... and they want people to enjoy that.

However, not everyone wants to raid, so limiting THAT behind a wall makes sense.

Does this mean that Class quests *will* forever be free? Not necessarily... I can see extra planets/zones being a "pay for" unlock, so class quests could well be locked out, if they set the class storylines on planets you need to buy ;)
1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) Never tell Gangrel to do anything... he will probably get it wrong
5) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.
6) BLOG ME!


Quote from: Lomez
WARNING! Swedish wall-of-text hits you for bork-bork-bork damage!

Offline Mironov

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Re: Star Wars: The old Republic
« Reply #102 on: August 18, 2012, 01:51:40 PM »
I found a picture that sums up pretty well the whole SW deal with SWTOR.



 :D

Offline Mironov

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Re: Star Wars: The old Republic
« Reply #103 on: August 22, 2012, 02:26:03 AM »