Author Topic: Found someone who is trying to resurrect TR  (Read 4531 times)

Offline Mironov

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Re: Found someone who is trying to resurrect TR
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2011, 12:15:59 AM »
my guess is that as soon as it become more or less playable, NC will ask for the closure of a project.

Offline Pvt. Grichmann

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Re: Found someone who is trying to resurrect TR
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2011, 01:11:16 AM »
At the rate this is going, we're back to "if".
But on the other hand, the source of a working server emulator. With a foundation like this, it should be easier for an enthusiast to start getting it up to snuff.

Here's the developer's quote on what it can do at the moment:

Character management works, except for less important things like family name generation or skip-bootcamp.
Ingame the following features are (partially) supported:
Run around and see other players
Use chat features
Basic item and inventory support, you can also equip weapons (but not armor)
Very basic support for abilities. For example the sprint ability does work.
Support for NPCs and missions. (NPCs don't move and vendors/trainers/etc. do not work)
Support for creatures and a very basic A.I.
There is a spawnsystem (includes the bane dropship animations when spawning creatures)
Combat system, you can damage and kill mobs. They will not drop anything and they will also have wrong animations. Player stats do not work, so you just run around with full stats all the time.
Because each and everything is connected in a way it forced me to start working on most features rather than finishing one feature after the other.

Offline Zey95

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Re: Found someone who is trying to resurrect TR
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2011, 03:24:51 PM »
A shame that this fell down.  :( I hope that some budding programmers takes up the project.

2 Questions
How long did it take the original team? 
How many did it take to make Tabula Rasa in the first place?
« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 03:33:18 PM by Zey95 »

Offline Gangrel

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Re: Found someone who is trying to resurrect TR
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2011, 11:43:17 PM »
A shame that this fell down.  :( I hope that some budding programmers takes up the project.

2 Questions
How long did it take the original team?
Depends on how you define it. If you are going from initial version to final release, including all the restarts... about 6 or 7 years (assuming that they started working on the game when Garriot announced his involvement/partnership with NCsoft).

OR, you can go for the 2nd version, which is from "final design" to initial release, which would then make it about 3 years work.
Quote
How many did it take to make Tabula Rasa in the first place?
Hard to say, as you cannot just go by the people that they list in the credits of the game.

NCsoft as a rule list EVERYONE who is an employee of their company in their credits (which is why NCsoft Europe, and the Asian NCsoft divisions are listed as well).

BUT, saying that... going by the *most likely* people, around 170 people worked on the game (I counted 178ish in the 1st 2 listings).... that is just people who helped develop it through any stage of the game (including the failed "unicorn and magic harp" concept) and were still employed by NCsoft when the manual was printed up.

Also, NCsoft have (or at least HAD) a rule of "If you work for us, you will at least TRY testing the game during the initial stages". Scott Jennings (who worked, then left, and then got rehired by NCsoft again but never actually did any work on the game) actually stated that he HATED the weekly testing sessions of a game that he wasnt involved in, so if you include everyone else... around 800 people were involved at *some stage or another* of the game at least internally.

Note: The initial figure that i listed earlier of 170ish, that doesnt include anyone who was brought in after the release of the game... there were a couple of new hires if i remember correctly.
1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) Never tell Gangrel to do anything... he will probably get it wrong
5) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.
6) BLOG ME!


Quote from: Lomez
WARNING! Swedish wall-of-text hits you for bork-bork-bork damage!

Offline Pvt. Grichmann

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Re: Found someone who is trying to resurrect TR
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2011, 05:36:59 AM »
I don't think it's quite right to say that it fell, per se. I'm watching the forum, and there seems to be quite some work getting done already, with J. H.'s personal-use-barely-legible-to-anyone-else code is being rewritten into a more transparent C++, the authentication server is being looked into, and so on.

Just how long these guys are going to stay interested in the project is an open question, of course. Perhaps some encouragement will help?
« Last Edit: April 22, 2011, 01:25:41 PM by Pvt. Grichmann »

Offline Zey95

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Re: Found someone who is trying to resurrect TR
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2011, 12:45:19 PM »
Thank you for your response Gangrel This helps put some sort of scale/ scope/ on the size of the  original project and just how much work that the amateur programmers are going to have to put in to get a fully functioning server side program working. Fortunately they shouldn't have to worry about the client program as some of us still have the original game disk however it will still need to be patched to work with their server.   

Offline Gangrel

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Re: Found someone who is trying to resurrect TR
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2011, 03:59:06 PM »
Yeah, building an MMO... or any game really from the ground up is a time consuming process.

You can cut time down by using "pre built" game engines/network code... whatever you can get your hands on and is released.

But game companies (in particular MMO companies) are VERY careful about releasing their network code, because it can reveal flaws to gain access to their server farms. Removing the offending code typically leaves about 5 lines of code... and they are the opening and closing lines ;)

Note: There are exceptions to the above, ie host your own server games, but even then the server code is not "released" in source code form... Quake/Doom etc etc but then tweaking said code then means that you have now stopped the "average joe" from playing on your server.

Zey, look at the credits of any recent game, just to get an idea of how many people are involved in a game on a "per project" basis. PC/Console titles typically range from 20/30 people up to 150-250 people. Handhelds are typically less "staff intensive" but they can still reach decent sizes of up to 75+ people.

MMO's are the big bad boys... You would be looking at 75 people dedicated core, then going up to 250+ without even thinking about it (all depends on the size of the MMO).

Side note: City of Heroes had a team of around 150 at the start, then after City of Villains was released, the core team was slashed down to 15 people (Cryptic studios moved members to work on their other projects). That is developers and not counting community team/support staff (NCsoft ran that themselves). They only started ramping up the team numbers in september 2008ish (IIRC) and hit a peak of 75-90 people recently.

So numbers isnt everything, but it does start making you wonder when you are chucking out 4000man hours of work a week on a project without even thing (remember, most developers do NOT work typical 9-5 jobs, and especially when it comes closer to release (any patch/expansion etc etc), you can easily double the output number of hours spent without thinking.
1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) Never tell Gangrel to do anything... he will probably get it wrong
5) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.
6) BLOG ME!


Quote from: Lomez
WARNING! Swedish wall-of-text hits you for bork-bork-bork damage!

Offline Tilarta

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Re: Found someone who is trying to resurrect TR
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2011, 02:44:26 PM »
I hope they're successful.

I really want to reimmerse myself in the world of Tabula Rasa again.

As for NCSoft, if they want to bring TR back, then they can object to a private server.
But since they won't, they can duck off!

The way it was explained to me, if a source code is compiled for a private server and you don't make money from it, then there's nothing wrong with having one.
I think people run private Lineage II servers without any hassle from NCS.

But then again, NCSoft were pretty vehement about killing TR, so they may not be reasonable on this subject.


I still have the Deployment 16 of the Tabula Rasa client on one of my external hard drives, just in case I ever need it again.
It's interesting to inspect the object libaries from time to time and see what's in there.

Offline Pvt. Grichmann

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Re: Found someone who is trying to resurrect TR
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2011, 03:14:12 PM »
You might want to head over to their forum and offer your client for dissection, if you actually played with it. They said they wanted to have a look at something to do with a "dumplog", whatever that is.

Offline Gangrel

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Re: Found someone who is trying to resurrect TR
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2011, 10:05:09 PM »
i *believe* that dump log was from a client that hadnt tried to connect since the servers went down...

Which takes out my clients... and probably most others due to logging in absent mindedly
1) I reject your reality.... and substitute my own
2) Not to be used when upset... will void warranty
3) Stoke me a clipper i will be back for dinner
4) Never tell Gangrel to do anything... he will probably get it wrong
5) I have seen more intelligence from an NPC AI in TR beta, than from most MMO players.
6) BLOG ME!


Quote from: Lomez
WARNING! Swedish wall-of-text hits you for bork-bork-bork damage!

Offline Tilarta

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Re: Found someone who is trying to resurrect TR
« Reply #25 on: May 01, 2011, 05:22:50 AM »
Yeah. that probably rules my client out.

I tried to connect a few times after the servers got the "Aion lobotomy", but nothing really came of it.
Well, except for seeing this screen taunting me:
http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu100/zrowngctr/TestServer.jpg
I have no idea why I was seeing that, especially since there was no test server to login to!

I did try to upload the client files once for a friend to analyze, but the upload crashed and I didn't really want to try again.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2011, 05:24:56 AM by Tilarta »

Offline oat

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Re: Found someone who is trying to resurrect TR
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2011, 08:35:35 PM »
I see I am not the only one keeping an eye this hurray if...IF. this server comes to fruitation then I may finally be able to play with people I know hurrah!

Offline Lasommbra

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Re: Found someone who is trying to resurrect TR
« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2011, 03:00:39 PM »
While I'll not hold my breath, I'll have your back in the Badlands if it does!  -L
If it moves, shoot it!