Author Topic: Crafting 101  (Read 32436 times)

Offline Stormshadow

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Re: Crafting 101
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2007, 05:58:12 PM »
lvl 29 is the magic number to just max out all the skill trees
Try to avoid questioning people's questions, especially leading to discussions

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Offline Devonshire

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Re: Crafting 101
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2007, 06:09:37 PM »
ok first few questions, with probably more to come.

1) I've got a chest with 4 base bonuses on that I can't mod further and a pair of boots with just 3 base mods.
How can you tell if an item can have more mods added to it?
2) Did i read somewhere that some items can have up to 5 mods in total?
3) What do the numbers next to the mods (1-4/5?) actually mean?
4) How is the strength of a mod you apply to an item determined (5/10/20%), by the level of schematic or something else?
5) What is 'regen' (+integer) compared to 'armor regen' (+percentage)

Offline Delusion

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Re: Crafting 101
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2007, 01:51:18 AM »
ok first few questions, with probably more to come.

1) I've got a chest with 4 base bonuses on that I can't mod further and a pair of boots with just 3 base mods.
How can you tell if an item can have more mods added to it?
2) Did i read somewhere that some items can have up to 5 mods in total?
3) What do the numbers next to the mods (1-4/5?) actually mean?
4) How is the strength of a mod you apply to an item determined (5/10/20%), by the level of schematic or something else?
5) What is 'regen' (+integer) compared to 'armor regen' (+percentage)

1+2) 4 is the most ive ever been able to add, although ive also heard the 5 rumour. I suspect if 5 is possible, its to allow for inherent mods already within the item, but ive not had schematics or parts available to check im afraid.  To be honest though, statistically speaking your odds of successfully crafting an item 4 times are approx 6.25% whilst your odds of loosing the item by that point are 50%, and for the 5th attempt youre looking at a 62.5% chance of loosing your item, tbh if youve got the parts, items and time to play those odds and try for a 5th mod, you're braver than i am.
I believe the patch tonight was meant to add a counter for the number of mods, but if it did, i cant see it.

For the statisticians out there who want to check my math....
Chance of success for each run is 50% at each "level" but globally, your odds are reduced by 50% at each mod, viz a viz you only have a 50% chance to mod an item the first time, and of that 50%, only a further 50% will succeed a second time, and of those only 50% will manage a 3rd time, etc etc...
so - 
First mod = 50% as standard
2nd mod = 25% ( or 50%/2)
3rd mod = 12.5% ( or (50%/2)/2 )
4th mod = 6.25% (or ((50%/2)/2)/2) )

conversely your odds of loosing the item are summative, or basically, you have the odds of loosing the item the first time, plus the odds of loosing it the second time,  plus the odds of loosing it at the 3rd attempt, etc.
so-
1st mod = 12.5% as standard
2nd mod = 25% 
3rd mod = 37.5%
4th mod = 50% chance to loose item 


3) The number seems  to relate to the  relative difficulty in obtaining the schematics and parts, and doesnt seem to affect the mod strength, although ive noticed mods seem to break down into types that relate also, eg regen mods tend to be [1] stealth upgrades are a [3] (if i remember right.) etc, and this number also helps determine how likely you are to recover the ingredients used for that mod as covered in my original post (thanks to khaine) 

4) So far ive only ever been able to add mods in stacks of +5% (or the default minimum level) skill has yet to affect the actual strength of a mod for me, and to date only seems to permit you to perform upgrades on higher level items.  I had wanted to test this more for developing the guide, but ive just not had the luck i need with getting schematics and parts.

5)
The +4 (which youll get with a standard regen mod) is a percentage increase of your total percentage recharge rate, rather than adding to a specific pool.
For example, with your armour example assuming both an armour and global regen rate of 200%:
an  'armor regen' (+percentage) mod of +4% would take you from 200% to [200+4]%  - (you just add the 4% to the end)
A 'regen' (+integer) mod would instead increase your global regen pool from 200% to [200x1.04]%  or 208%  - (you increase the total value by 4%)
« Last Edit: November 15, 2007, 01:57:08 AM by Delusion »

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Offline Delusion

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Re: Crafting 101
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2007, 02:08:30 AM »
Just realised i totally missed the point of your 1ST Q.

My honest answer would be, i dont know.  Ive generally only worked with stock items as anything else is stripped down for parts for testing, and ive not had enough schematics drop to successfully get beyond adding 4mods before loosing the item.

5 mods seems possible though, as the big bertha comes with an insane number of mods as standard, if memory serves.  Im sorry i cant be more help on this one, but i dont have the beta experience some of the other crafters have had  :-/

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Offline Taichou

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Re: Crafting 101
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2007, 09:55:15 AM »
Nice guide :)

As I'm toying around with crafting a bit myself, I've found some small mistakes hovering around in the thread:

-Pump level of the crafting skills only applies to schematics that need that specific skill and only allows you to craft that item. No further bonuses are granted.
I've yet to find any modification recipe that requires crafting skill (only what the OP refers to as supplies does require it)

-The number next to a mod displays its current level, with 4 being the maximum (at least before the latest patch, haven't had time to log in since). They stack in a linear way, e.g. giving you a [1]Increased critical chance +1%, [2]Increased critical chance +2% and so on.
I haven't found proof that the number is related to the type of mod so far. Exception to this so far are the "decreases x resistance" mods, but I didn't have any recipes to test those properly :/
Another exception seem to be certain stats like body. At lower levels each "pump" would give for example a bonus of 5, while later on it's a bonus of 6. This is unrelated to crafting skill pump. More testing needed here too :/

-Quality of items seems to determine the max number of mods. I've tested that short before the end of beta, maybe that changed. Grey has higher innate chances of destroying your item when adding the first mod, for example. Adding new mods so far had 100% success on better grade items for me.
I can't figure out the maximum number of allowed mods per quality, though :/ I haven't been able to add new mods to certain items, while other items I found had more mods than the item I tried with. This lead me to believe that it's possible to drop or receive items via quests that have more mods than you could add yourself via crafting. Maybe even the total number of mod "levels" is the relevant thing ... or a combination of both -.- I'm at a loss there ^^


Btw, I've also so far found 47 different ingredients, maybe that's the maximum number ^^


Offline Devonshire

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Re: Crafting 101
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2007, 12:54:53 PM »

-The number next to a mod displays its current level, with 4 being the maximum (at least before the latest patch, haven't had time to log in since). They stack in a linear way, e.g. giving you a [1]Increased critical chance +1%, [2]Increased critical chance +2% and so on.
I haven't found proof that the number is related to the type of mod so far. Exception to this so far are the "decreases x resistance" mods, but I didn't have any recipes to test those properly :/
Another exception seem to be certain stats like body. At lower levels each "pump" would give for example a bonus of 5, while later on it's a bonus of 6. This is unrelated to crafting skill pump. More testing needed here too :/

I finally noticed a green item with
[3] blahblah
[3] blahblah
[1] blahblah

have also seen [4][3][2] (with no [1])

My next thought is could you add a +crit chance mod to an item that already has the bonus at say [1] or [2] to go up a percent on that bonus. ie from '[2] crit bonus 3%' to '[3] crit bonus 4%' to increase the strength of a bonus without using up one of the 4 (or 5) mod 'slots'.

Quote from: Delusion
only seems to permit you to perform upgrades on higher level items
ahhh that might explain not being able to add a 4th bonus onto some boots with only 3 already on.
Thats a real pain as you need to use up all your schematics before you level or just vendor trash them. seriously devalued.

... it's just not an intuative system :( needs some official explanation I think. Wonder if we could get a detailed response?

Offline Dragon_Lord

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Re: Crafting 101
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2007, 03:21:00 PM »
Thisinfoneeds to be added to the Crafting equation.
The Color of the Armor or Weapon affects the number of Mods you can apply.

Green=6
Blue=8
Purple=10

The number of stack mods counts against this.  For Example:

Green Armor Piece
[4] Resist EMP#%
[1] Regen #%

Total number of mods are 5.  You can add one more to equal 6.
Adding a brand new Mod s a 100% success chance.  So go for it.  Stacking lowers your chances of success.  Stacking a second Regen above will bring your chances of success to 50% with a 12.5% chance of lost.  See Delusion tables below.

Stacking a mod four times seems to be the max.  I'll have to do more test.

Offline teskon

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Re: Crafting 101
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2007, 10:05:49 PM »
so with other words, i can have a purple with

[3] resist emp
[3] resist viral
[2] regen %
[2] resist physical
10

but not

[3] resist emp
[3] resist viral
[3] regen %
[2] resist physical
11


right ?
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Offline Puh

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Re: Crafting 101
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2007, 08:04:14 PM »
The Color of the Armor or Weapon affects the number of Mods you can apply.

Green=6
Blue=8
Purple=10



are you sure of this? or maybe I missunderstand you. because I've got the following:

blue shotgun
[3] reg armor
[2] reduse sonic
[5] reduce ice

total of 10 points.*


Purple rifle
[4] crit %
[3] reduce laser
[1] reduce electricity
[4] reduce fire

total of 12 points.*

*not saying this is any limit.

it seems to me that the maximum number of mods are 4, nomatter colour.
and the maximum mod level is [5].



I did some tests on the test server, and posted in some other thread. I'll copy paste that if anyone finds it useful.


with photonics 1, I modded a white weapon with [1], and had a 50% chance of success.
with photonics 5, I had a 100% success.

if anyone's interested in the chance of success% and destroy% of the items, with maxed out crafting skills (5/5), I'll copy-paste what I found out.


ps. some dont have [4] and [5], because either they got destroyed or I ran out of stuff.



colour....mod level...success%...destroy%

white........1..........100%........0%
white........2..........43%.........14%
white........3..........18%.........20%

green........1..........100%........0%
green........2..........96%.........3%
green........3..........36%.........16%
green........4..........15%.........21%

blue.........1..........100%........0%
blue.........2..........100%........0%
blue.........3..........72%.........7%
blue.........4..........30%.........17%
blue.........5..........13%.........21%

purple.......1..........100%........0%
purple.......2..........100%........0%
purple.......3..........100%........0%
purple.......4..........60%.........10%
purple.......5..........25%.........18%

/P
« Last Edit: November 25, 2007, 11:13:14 PM by Puh »
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Offline GeckoOBac

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Re: Crafting 101
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2007, 01:06:25 AM »
I've done some extensive testing on crafting (I'm also compiling a comprehensive list of all components needed for all the modifications) and here's what I found:

1) Contrary to what Dragon_lord has said I believe that the tier level of an item (that is, white, green, blue and purple (dunno if there are more)) determines not the global level of mods but only the maximum number of DIFFERENT mods you can add to an item.
That is:
Green 2 mods
Blue 3 mods
Purple 4 mods

I'm not sure about white but I guess it's only 1 mod following this logic.
I'm saying this because I can't add anything to a green with 3 lvl 1 modifications, or a blue with a total level of 6.

Bear in mind that I'm talking about ADDING mods, it can happen, for example, that you get a green weapon with 3 bonuses, but you can't add anything to it.
On the other hand you can find a purple item with just 2 mods and then add two more mods to it.
Again, I'm not talking about mod level, just mod type.

2) Like I said somewhere else I believe, dropped not white weapons with built-in modifications will always get the first modification added to it at a 100% chance. I believe this to be a bug. For further levels (or IIRC different kind of mods) of modification you will get the 50% success 12% destroy chance as always.

3) The numbers beside a modification stand for the modification level. Disassembling an item with high levels of modification won't get you more components but only an higher success rate in retrieving them.
The meaning of the level though is this:
Every single modification has a base version, which is level 1. For example lvl 1 resists are +2%, crit chance +1% and so on. The modification levels says by which constant you have to multiply the base effect to get the current effect (which is the one showing on the item). For example Physical resist 4 will yield 8% physical resist.

Modification levels are generated randomly on dropped/quest items, but are always ordered in the item from the highest level to the lowest.
IE: Right now I've got a purple that has 1 lvl 4 mod, 1 lvl 3 mod, 1 lvl 2 mod, 1 lvl 1 mod. But I also have got a purple that has 2 lvl 4 mods, a green with 3 lvl 1 mods and two blues with 2 lvl 3 mods and 1 lvl 2 mod.
For crafted modifications the modification level also means how many time you added a certain recipe to an item (you have to use 4 recipes and 4 components (and a whole lot of luck judging from Delusion calculations) to get a lvl 4 modification)

4) Just because somebody may not have noticed: for some modifications there are different components to obtain the same effect on armor or on weapons. For example physical resist for armor uses kinetic buffer while physical resist for weapons uses kinetic suppressor.

EDIT: Attention, take point (1) with a grain of salt. Looking through my things I realized that I modified a blue chaingun (originally having one level 4 mod and one lvl 3 mod) to have two more modifications, both level 1. Since this bring the total mod count to 4 and the total lvl count to 9 it means that both Dragon_lord's and my version are wrong, or at least not completely accurate. This will need further testing.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2007, 01:10:06 AM by GeckoOBac »
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Offline DeeSaster

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Re: Crafting 101
« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2007, 12:03:40 PM »
To further confuse everyone, I can tell you that I could add three lvl1 modifications to my green lvl18 (big bertha) chaingun. However the item is bind on equip (the only item I found with that property BTW) so that might add something to the alteration possibilities.
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Offline GeckoOBac

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Re: Crafting 101
« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2007, 12:14:27 PM »
To further confuse everyone, I can tell you that I could add three lvl1 modifications to my green lvl18 (big bertha) chaingun. However the item is bind on equip (the only item I found with that property BTW) so that might add something to the alteration possibilities.

Well I have to say that this is confusing indeed. I've tried modding many other items and I get mixed results. I can't seem to infer any scheme right now. I get far too few useful schematics though, while I do have lots of components =/


Oh just a note: If you keep your components in the locker, if you want to avoid manually stacking the items every time I advise you to put all the components (maybe do it in 2 times, in this way they should all fit in your inventory) in the backpack and then back again in the locker. In this way they automatically stack and you don't have to manually check anymore.
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Offline DeeSaster

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Re: Crafting 101
« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2007, 01:53:59 PM »
No autostacking truely tests my patience, but since crafting skills change modifying success rates after this patch, I will need a dedicated crafter alt anyway. If I keep the mats in his inventory and let him do all the disassembling, there is no need for switching between backpack and footlocker multiple times. Thanks for the tip anyway mate. :)
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Offline 13thDisciple

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Re: Crafting 101
« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2007, 03:20:08 PM »
only bad thing about keeping all crafting matz on your alt crafter, by the time you get to a high level crafter, you will notice that you only have room to hold 2 schematics,   really annoying to only be able to bring 2 at a time over...

I'm not saying you shouldnt hold matz on crafter, hell it's what i do.  just annoying that the craft tab is so small and schemetics are so varied that not many of them will stack.

Offline DeeSaster

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Re: Crafting 101
« Reply #29 on: November 29, 2007, 04:25:56 PM »
The idea was to keep all schematics in the footlocker and park the clone in twin pillars, or another spot with a crafting vendor, a footlocker and a crafting machine right next to each other.

I suppose I could live with only two schematics at a time then. Or you could even move the odd mats in the locker while you are crafting. Far from ideal, I give you that, but its something to work with. I cant bear manually stacking the same 20ish generic icon mats after each disassembly session much longer. ><
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